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Lowering... a few questions for the racers...
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TONY ENGLAND
Lowered


Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 742
Location: MALDON, ENGLAND, UK

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Joolz, i agree with Bartje. You can weld the rods but make sure its a good weld. I have extended the rods on my truck 'SCAR' because of the extra length on the chassis. They have been done for over a year and given no problems at all and thats with four people inside and camping gear in the back.
I welded the ends of the rods together, then slid a length of steel tube over the joint and welded that at each end (double strength) Very Happy .
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JoZeF
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Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1734

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, however unless you're doing custom wheelbase like Tonys car or such, your best bet in a regular 2cv chassis lowering job, is just to use rear Acadiane tie rod ends, and, in most cases, the actual ends on the 2cv are long enough...
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Joolz
Snailer


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Pays de Galles/Charente

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers guys, just to confuse people I want to shorten mine on a lowered car! I couldn't decide if I should shorten the tie rods or put a spacer between the tie rod and spring cup, but if it works for you I have a go at chopping the tie rod.
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björn
Lowered


Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1695
Location: hillywood(hilversum)/holland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

today i hade contact whit a company that make's springs
day cane make springs as hard as you oned
for about 200euro a set
if people are intrestit
late me know
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Harley
Dropped


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Braidwood - Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Spring Rates Reply with quote

I am having springs made uprated to 150%.
To get an acurate result the engineer needs to know how much the spring is compressed when on the bumb stops, both front and rear.
Also, how much pressure is on them when compressed?
And, What is there standard spring rate?

Cheers
Harley
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dyanut
Dropped


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 177
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Spring Rates Reply with quote

Harley,
can't help with the question as to how much the spring will be compressed, since surely that depends on how the suspension is set up?
That's also linked to whether the increased spring rates are achieved by reducing the number of 'working' turns or increasing the wire diameter, which will affect its ride height and clearance to the bump stops.

From what I recall, standard front springs are about 800 lbs/in and rears are closer to 880 lbs/in. ( Sorry about the imperial units, but maybe we'll go all metric one day.) Wink

Don't forget that the windings on front and rear springs run in opposite directions, so you should probably cut the canisters open and show the existing springs to the engineer.

Ken.



Harley wrote:
I am having springs made uprated to 150%.
To get an acurate result the engineer needs to know how much the spring is compressed when on the bumb stops, both front and rear.
Also, how much pressure is on them when compressed?
And, What is there standard spring rate?

Cheers
Harley
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Harley
Dropped


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Braidwood - Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Spring Rates Reply with quote

dyanut wrote:
Harley,

Don't forget that the windings on front and rear springs run in opposite directions, so you should probably cut the canisters open and show the existing springs to the engineer.

Ken.


Thx Ken,

Yes i have already cut open the spring pot and given the springs to the engineer, perhaps the spring rates will be enough... He did ask for the compression at full load though Confused I can see what you mean that it is different depending how you have the suspension setup.

Can anyone else confirm spring rates??

One other thing, which is the smaller spring, front or back?

Cheers
Harley
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dyanut
Dropped


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 177
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Spring Rates Reply with quote

Harley,
the smaller/shorter spring is the rear one.

Maybe have some fun with this spring rate calculator? Cool
< http://www.engineersedge.com/spring_comp_calc_k.htm >

Cheers, Ken



Harley wrote:
[
Thx Ken,

Yes i have already cut open the spring pot and given the springs to the engineer, perhaps the spring rates will be enough... He did ask for the compression at full load though Confused I can see what you mean that it is different depending how you have the suspension setup.

Can anyone else confirm spring rates??

One other thing, which is the smaller spring, front or back?

Cheers
Harley
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MattiH
Snailer


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey!

I have standard 2cv/Ami oil filled shocks on my 2cv and i tried to make those a bit harder by changing oils. The job went OK until i figured that every shock had a diffrent amount of oil inside..

So how much oil should there be in front, and back shocks?
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Bart
Lowered


Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 781
Location: Södertälje

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattiH wrote:
So how much oil should there be in front, and back shocks?
Don't know, but they should be FULL with oil.
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JuanNavarro
Dropped


Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 153
Location: Madrid (Spain)

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Springs rating measurement Reply with quote

dyanut wrote:
From what I recall, standard front springs are about 800 lbs/in and rears are closer to 880 lbs/in. ( Sorry about the imperial units, but maybe we'll go all metric one day.) Wink
This mean:
800lbs/in = 14,3kg/mm
880lbr/in = 15,7kg/mm
Harley wrote:
Can anyone else confirm spring rates??

From my 2cv measured at my work cute press:

Hey! its me with a railway locomotive spring (weighs 55kg and stand 10000kg)

The values are:
Front Spring:
Wire diameter: 15,4mm
Exterior diameter: 102mm
Wire direction: Left
Total number of windings: 5
Free heigt: 190mm
Rate: 15,3kg/mm

Rear Spring:
Wire diameter: 15,4mm
Exterior diameter: 102mm
Wire direction: Right
Total number of windings: 6,2
Free heigt: 166mm
Rate: 18,2kg/mm

The readings are pretty near what dyanut said.

According to my measurements when the car stands in floor without driver and 1/2 gas tank:
The front spring is compresed 38mm, so the spring makes aprox 540kg
The rear spring is compresed 20mm, so the spring makes aprox 146kg

I hope this data will be useful for better tuning.
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2cvman
Snailer


Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Monmouth

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Spring Rate Reply with quote

Good work doing the measurements, just facts no waffle.
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MattiH
Snailer


Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bartje wrote:
MattiH wrote:
So how much oil should there be in front, and back shocks?
Don't know, but they should be FULL with oil.


I thought there should be air and oil? I allrdy tried to put one FULL of oil, and it didnt move even a bit.. So it was very hard and im sure that it would just go broken if installed under a car.
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Bart
Lowered


Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 781
Location: Södertälje

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattiH wrote:
Bartje wrote:
MattiH wrote:
So how much oil should there be in front, and back shocks?
Don't know, but they should be FULL with oil.


I thought there should be air and oil? I allrdy tried to put one FULL of oil, and it didnt move even a bit.. So it was very hard and im sure that it would just go broken if installed under a car.

Embarassed Sorry I may well be wrong there. If you read earlier posts from the pro's on this topic on page 2; it says as much as you took out.
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björn
Lowered


Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1695
Location: hillywood(hilversum)/holland

PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is one snailler hire that knows from experians
steffan!
he makes stiff shoks and brakes them to Laughing
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