SNAIL

Rusty · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: wankel/rotary engine

Hi,

has anyone ever tried to fit a wankel engine (like NSU RO 80, Mazda RX7 / 8 oops, almost forgot GS birotor) in an A-type?

I've been thinking about the possibilities, and in my opinion an engine like this has a lot of advantages!
- small build engine
- high power output (old mazda RX7 1983, 1200 cm2, 85 KW)
- high revs (ideal for A-type / G-type gearboxes)
- i think most (or all) are 2 disk wankelengines (2 cilinder!?!)
- modern (or modernised) engines are really reliable

link: to see how it works : http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankelmotor
english text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine

so thinking of these things, it is probably easier to fit an engine like this in an A-type than, for example, a BMW boxer or Motoguzzi engine!

i'd like to read your idea's, comments, etc.

greetzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Rusty

edit: Evil or Very Mad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asPWO6j5ohU
to get an idea of the size of the actual engine : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFLPUphqdX4&feature=related

Etienne · Hoodrider Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 2829

Lionel · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: wankel/rotary engine

Kustombart · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject:

NSU and Citroen birotors are nice but very high-maintenance. The seals (they have the function like piston rings in a regular engine) tend to wear out before 30.000 kms, resulting in oil-burning.

If you want to build one, go for a recent Mazda engine, they fixed that problem in the 80s. Find one that still has parts available.

The only reasons I could think of to not use a Wankel is that most people and mechanics are unfamiliar with the workings and that fuel consumption is high and that it performs best at high RPMs. Other than that: go for it!
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Rusty · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject:

Hi,
space is one of the main problems when putting in an other engine! (BMW boxer : very large carter, Citroen G-series 4 cilinder: to long, Motoguzzi: v-twin is never going to fit! and i can go on with this list for a while)

so a wankel engine would be great! the engine from an NSU RO 80 1000 ccm, 115 Hp! and another advantage is that the engines are very light (compared to other engines with same poweroutput)

oh no, I'm dreaming again, and I haven't even finished my other projects......

greetzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Rusty

one more thing, reliability can be improved a lot for the NSU RO 80 engine, when overhauled with modern materials!

Spookeend · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject:

I think it's really cool, been driving a RX 7 from my neighbour once, awsome kick above 4000rpm.

But, one of the advantages i disagree.

Ideal for a-type gearboxes? Even with a slight bit of tuning by mounting a visa engine or big-bore kit, the gearbox gets really worn out. I think it has not so much to do with the high revs, but with the increase of torgue.

More people have these problems. My 1st gearbox, died very soon after i put in the tuned engine. The next gearbox (Dyane 6 gearbox with low milage) is allready making weird noises.

Other then that, i would think a perfomance engine like that, would be way more fun when it would drive the rearwheels (as in the vw beetle).

Ow, and what type of gearbox was used in the m35 proto?? Do not know that.

Greatnix Spookeend

(ps : you are right, finish the other projects first, hahahaha)
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backfire · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject:

although the engine appears small in size, everything needed to keep it running is a lot, open a bonnet from mazda and you will see it´s totally cramped with stuff to keep it running in good order.

The only plus of a wankel is that it keeps on revving, it loves to do that. Like said before high fuelconsumption and cilinders once damaged will set you back 1000 euro for repairs.
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Olli · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject:

Interesting.

they take +1000 hp out of those mazda wankels whit turbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-8R4SJOgU4&feature=related

-Olli
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stefan · Dropped Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 257 Location: holland

1664 hp you mean Shocked

,ok it sounds more like a airplane engine Razz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO1782B6RZw
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Kustombart · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 11:36 am Post subject:

It sounds like an airplane for ten minutes. Then it sounds like a 5.000 euro overhaul.

If I think practical here for a second (end the dreaming) then Mazda is the way to go. The NSU brand name does sound better but I bet a Mazda engine will be easier to find and cheaper, too. I wouldn't be surprised if you can get parts for it at any Mazda dealer or even the parts shop around the corner.
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backfire · Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject:

For 1200 dollars you have a complete turbocharged rotary mazda engine. That's about 800 euro.
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2CV, with Visa turbo charged

Rusty · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject:

Hi
@ spookeend: with suitable for A-type gearboxes I meant high revs, i know that it won't last long, but you will have a lot of fun (and scary moments! Wink

@ olli & steffan: I've seen the movies on Youtube as well, but i think about 100-150 hp will be enough for an A-type of lets say 600 kg's! and don't forget that mazda also uses 3 disk wankelengines (RX8) and I've seen 4 disk versions as well (don't know if those are factoryengines)

@ backfire: I think a lot of 'the stuff' around the engine can be located elswhere and a tuned A-type/ G-type engine (lust ook wel een slokje! :) ) (needs a bit more petrol as well, at the moment 1:10 visa engine in 2cv)

but except from the M35, a conversion like this has never been done??????

greetzzzzzzzzzz

Rusty

backfire · Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject:

No conversion that I have heard of, but jet conversion has also not yet been done Very Happy

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2CV, with Visa turbo charged