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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: SPARK PLUGS |
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I've searched t'internet, but can't find anything on spark plugs.
because of the way the 2cv coil works iridium plugs would be a waste of money, only one pot would benefit.
If memory serves me, one side of the high tension works normally and the spark jumps from centre electrode to earth, as it goes it takes a miniscule amount from the electrode, but the other side work in reverse, and the spark jumps from the earth to the centre electrode, but the earth tab isn't hardened like the centre electrode, so wears much faster, swapping plugs halfway through service intervals helps.
but Bosch super 4's, or accuspark plugs could have potential benefits. as there are more earth electrodes, wear would be reduced four fold for a bosch super 4, also side gapping has been proven to improve burn speed and quality, burning the fuel available at a much more efficient rate
but as of yet I've not been able to find either Bosch or accuspark as a replacement for the NGK B6HS, does anyone know of another? or a part number for the Bosch? _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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S O S Snailer
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 15 Location: The dreich North
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:52 am Post subject: |
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whats wrong with NGK? they go on forever
try b7s for unleaded _________________ Kissing the lash |
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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: |
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I thought my post explained quite clearly what's wrong with the NGK!
it's a perfectly acceptable plug, but that's it. _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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dyanut Dropped
Joined: 05 Aug 2007 Posts: 177 Location: North Yorkshire
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Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: SPARK PLUGS |
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bren?,
I'm ancient enough to remember finding side electrode plugs, made by KLG or Lodge, on Brit bikes in my younger days.
I also remember how difficult it was to adjust the gaps on them...
Anyway, with the 2CV's waste spark/double ended coil, it's much easier to reverse the HT polarity by swapping the LT connections in order to equalise erosion of the earth electrodes.
Doing that whenever you grease the kingpins or change the oil seems to work.
Also, if you're running a tuned engine and are determined to find a modern version of the multiple side electrode plug, you really should be going at least one step colder in heat range than the original recommendation, although two steps would be better.
( Be careful, as Japanese heat range is 'higher number = colder plug, whereas other brands are the reverse.)
Have you tried looking for Bosch or Accuspark plugs equivalent to NGK's B7HS or B8HS?
Ken
( p.s. I don't understand how side electrode plugs could 'improve burn speed', as once the flame front has been initiated, it's factors such as cylinder pressure, composition of the mixture, amount of swirl and so on which determine the rate at which the flame front will spread across the combustion chamber, isn't it?) |
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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry Dyanut, I didn't mean to ignore your post
but for some reason it didn't show as a new post on my timeline, and I missed it!!
thanks for the post
I've actually gone back one "number" on the temperature gauge (colder) because I couldn't find the exact match!, and I would rather go colder and foul the plug, than hotter and melt the plug (or worse the piston).
I do understand the differences! I'm a mechanic by trade, but it's a very foolish man who thinks he knows it all!! there's always something new to learn!.
I'm not trying to reinvent the engine, just tweaking for fun!! _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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well I've fitted a pair of Bosch super 4's!
I searched the web for hours, and simply there isn't a multi earth electrode plug, with a short thread, available at this time
so I've done the best I can, and a bosch W56 is as close as you can get spec wise, but too long a thread.
at the moment I've packed it out with four copper washers, it's not my final solution I'd like to turn a small brass nut to compensate, but whilst experimenting, the washers work for now!! _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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and honestly the engine feels better!
I made a point of changing the plugs and touching nothing else, the week before I checked the timing, and the HT leads are new, so I drove it for a week, then fitted the new plugs, so any difference is purely down to the plugs!!
and it pulls better from low revs, before if you let the revs drop too low it would pop and backfire, now it will still do it, but at much lower revs, and much less aggressive backfires/stutters.
it will hold onto top gear on a hill climb for longer! don't get excited, it's still 602cc but it definately pulls a little stronger.
cold start is also better, much less popping and farting, and that huge flat spot when trying to pull away with a cold engine, isn't quite gone, but it's much reduced!!
I'm looking forward to combining them with a 123 IGNITION!! _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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123 ignition ordered and on its way
they're on offer at the moment 150 euro delivered
I'm looking forward to fitting it! I'll report on it when I have. _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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sphereholic Snailer
Joined: 14 Dec 2011 Posts: 3 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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I had an experiment with the voltage regulator and it turned out that 2CV HT circuit is very sensible to the voltage produced by the alternator.
My original Ducellier regulator produced 13.9-14.2V. I changed with an electronic one set to 14.7-14.8V and the difference is immense. The spark seems to be stronger and the engine power is better both in low and high revs. The sparkplugs are regular BR7HS NGK-s.
Have this in mind. Sometimes good engine adjustment gives more power than any 123. _________________ 2CVcharleston.eu |
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Harley Dropped
Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 394 Location: Braidwood - Australia
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Nice research.
You should put in an order for [url=http://www.international2cvfriends.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3003 ]1-2-spark,[/url] it's potential over 123 is great.
I run a 123 and am very satisfied with it's reliability over points.
Harley _________________ Check out my Dinosaur www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPF_uU61als
Spot my 2cv www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoq68CPLq4M |
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S O S Snailer
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 15 Location: The dreich North
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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breninfrance wrote: | I thought my post explained quite clearly what's wrong with the NGK!
it's a perfectly acceptable plug, but that's it. |
your post said you were looking for a replacement of b 6s - find b7s to be better - but you found that out too
we had BAP style surface discharge plugs fitted to the race car - it was a B****rd to start cold. They were the long reach ones but a set of seat belt spacer rings opened out to 14.5mm made suitable spacers
if youve found a solution thats great
a decent coil is a really good upgrade i found it made huge differance much more than plugs, high output designed for points Harleys the ones to go for. _________________ Kissing the lash |
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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm very sorry S O S, there seems to be something lost in translation, I have no problem with the NGK plugs, I am just playing with alternatives.
if I understand your post correctly you have also experimented with plugs.
have you found the Harley style coil to give a better spark? a worthwhile difference?? _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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S O S Snailer
Joined: 21 Jul 2009 Posts: 15 Location: The dreich North
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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no worries,
yes they are superb good mid range and no faltering at top end
The yellow accel coil sold by 2cv specialists are popular, some of the pattern solid resin ones by the likes of "Bikers Choice" in the States are a good alternative.
Dyna coils also do ones that fit but ive only found expensive examples.
Depending on your ignition type you need greater than 3 ohm primary windings for points and points assisted and older 123 and their clones.
a good coil is going to make more difference than a fancy spark plug - most of the claims seem like BS! _________________ Kissing the lash |
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breninfrance Dropped
Joined: 16 Jan 2012 Posts: 166
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Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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thanks.
I have the new generation 123, so I have a wider choice of coils (I believe you can tell which ignition box you have by the colour of the label on the ignition box). _________________ if it aint broke, fix it till it is |
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