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Barbot Speciale (moved from Custom Nostalgia)
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Meeuw
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Joined: 24 Sep 2008
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Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:59 am by Jozef

he tyres look like 125x400 by Firestone.

I have some on my '54 A.



I believe the wheels were from a Peugeot '02 series ?
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Meeuw
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Joined: 24 Sep 2008
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Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 3:55 pm by Meeuw

@ Jozef,

Thanks,

Do you have an idea about the rims of the Barbot?

They look like the later Ami Super or GS rims but I don't think they already excisted back in the fifties.....
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Meeuw
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 6:57 pm by Olli

Those rims are far away from GS/Super rims, holes are completely
different. They look like they are old aftermarket (?) wheels like here:
(even here is more holes) I think those barbot ones are full custom.



Center looks to be modified too. It looks like there have been wended circle
piece where bolts are. Maybe they bring offset more in like this?
Only change to get good is make them custom out of 2cv 400 (or 125) rims...

-Olli
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Meeuw
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:06 pm by Josef

Or maybe check what I said previously.... Neutral


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Meeuw
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 7:49 pm by Olli



Not enough.. Also wound be strange if they would look wheels from more
heavy cars back then.
-Olli
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Meeuw
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:22 pm by Meeuw

@ Jozef,

Embarassed Can't do 2 things at once........

Looked at your image and compared it to the rims of the Barbot. The inner rim (the one just around the bolts) is more pronounced on the Barbot....

@ Olli,

Dagonet could be an option for research.

But..........,

I think I've just found a (near) perfect match: Rosengart LR4-N2. Rim size 140x400, 15 holes and a slightly different hub (the centerpiece with the bolts)



And http://home.hetnet.nl/~ekeren.ton/rosengart/index.HTML (Dutch)

Do you both agree?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:22 pm by Jozef

Wouldn't be so strange if they were looking for already existing wider wheels for increased roadholding on the Montlhery oval...

This car wasn't designed to be fast, it was designed to be fast and reliable enough to break records in a given (smaller than original) engine size category. it was a low tech car and probably extremely cheaply made... probably why it never survived...

In any case these wheels on the Barbot are obviously from something else (even if the holes are custom cut), because as you said previously something has been done to the PCD of them.
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Meeuw
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:04 pm by Meeuw

I agree with you JoZeF.

If you closely study the pictures in the pitlane you'll see that the bodywork is roughly shaped and only the most necessary items are placed on the car.

Barbot had only one thing in mind; a cheap and reliable racing car.... If he had the funds he would race a DB/Panhard or moved up to another racing class...

Therefore my replica will NOT be a sleek and slim reproduction but real and ready to drive ....,
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:09 pm by Jozef

yeap exactly... the paint was probably new, though Wink

Regarding the wheel business. they would have just used original wheels if they were OK for the job...

And I doubt that drilling holes in them was anything other than a waste of time... Laughing

The "high" speeds the car reached was probably due to the increase of wheel diameter too... Laughing (like 145x400 or 155x400 probably fitted to peugeot of the time)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:14 am by Meeuw

New paint was usefull for a smoother airflow Laughing

Looked further on the Rosengart issue. Seems like they also used 3 bolt hubs so this one is plausible.

Now I have to visit all the scrapyards in France.... Confused Don't think that my girlfriend will approve...............
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:21 am by Etienne

This is a tire for a Renault 4CV 135X400



You can easily buy this on a french spare part market. I made this pic sunday.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:25 am by Etienne

Meeuw wrote:

I think he did the same as we do nowadays to lower our cars. I've seen a movie of the record and the car's suspension functions the same as a normal A does (bouncy). Don't forget the car is also shortened by 25cm, this also forced Barbot to alter the ride height..... Longer rods > lower car?


Did you ever drive an early 50's 2cv? The suspension is so soft than when you sit in it, the car go down 10cm! So if he wouldn't change the suspension, on each bump, the wheels would have hitten the fenders. And Monthléry is not smooth at all... Confused
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:16 am by Jozef

Barbot possibly opened the spring cans and cut/shortened the springs. to make the car lower and harder.

I don't know enough to say whether hydraulic shock absorber kits were available for the 2cv at the time but quite a few have been made for the early 2cv so maybe Barbot pionneered something in that range of ideas...

without photos or period text or sketches it's going to be hard to know for sure.

I think that on the suspension topic it's probably hidden enough in the channeling job to fit 2cv6 suspension without getting shot by the barbot purists...

it doesn't prevent you from using 2cv A or AZ axles and driveshafts either... Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:16 am by Meeuw

@ Etienne,

I've been to Monthlery this spring, it aint smooth I agree.

I have some experience with old 2cv's. In the 70's my dad used 2cv4's for his personell to drive through the forrest. They used to say 'the older, the better'.... (for their confort).

Keep in mind that the car was almost new in that time. What we now think is weak could be stiffer when it was new....

Thanks for the tyres. Have to go to France someday......
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:36 am by Olli

Old 2cv suspension were never hard, rather its soft as feather.
Driving in forest roads or in track whit low car, asks totally different kind a
suspensions. Later 2cv's suspension is already much harder than old ones.
Barbot sure didnt drive whit original suspension, maybe there is just rubber.

-Olli
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