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The 'Duc' of Deuches
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Meeuw
Dropped


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject: The 'Duc' of Deuches Reply with quote

Hi there,

New on this forum I would like to shake things a little bit up..... Laughing

Currently I'm rebuilding a burned 87 2cv and I'm sourcing for my new project: A real (!) replica of the famous Barbot Speciale.

Apart from the Barbot project I am looking to beef the 87 Deuche a little bit up...... with the following 'fun part':

I want to build a new engine, including the cilinders and 4 valve heads of a Ducati twin. And (if it's not enough) I'm going to use a Aisin AMR300 (found on a Subaru Vivio) supercharger too!

The engine will use a specially fabricated crankcase (without the usual cam), a modified or new built crankshaft, two pulleys (the Ducati cams are belt driven), throttlebodies, injection and electronic ignition.

I am aware of the problems which this project may cause (not to mention the gearbox) and would like to use this forum to engineer this piece of..... Hmmm, what to say...... innovation?

So, for all the pistonheads, please feel free to add your thoughts, engineering ideas and solutions!

P.s. I am not going to swap for a BMW boxer, a Guzzi engine, rockets or any other wicked idea Rolling Eyes
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Panthershaun
Dropped


Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 247
Location: Kent, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice one dude Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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JoZeF
Grave Digger


Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1734

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Re: The 'Duc' of Deuches Reply with quote

Meeuw wrote:
I want to build a new engine, including the cilinders and 4 valve heads of a Ducati twin. And (if it's not enough) I'm going to use a Aisin AMR300 (found on a Subaru Vivio) supercharger too!

The engine will use a specially fabricated crankcase (without the usual cam), a modified or new built crankshaft, two pulleys (the Ducati cams are belt driven), throttlebodies, injection and electronic ignition.

So, for all the pistonheads, please feel free to add your thoughts, engineering ideas and solutions!


So with all that planned you still need us to tell you how to do it ? I think it would be better to keep standard carburetor...

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

I don't know what your background is (that's what this is for), maybe you do work for Renault F1 Team and have full access to the workshops, but I'd say if you manage to fit a BMW engine and make it run nicely it would be a (very) good start...

Neutral

Welcome here, have fun. I sure am.
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SamClukkers
Lowered


Joined: 23 Jun 2007
Posts: 774
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:21 am    Post subject: Re: The 'Duc' of Deuches Reply with quote

Meeuw wrote:
A real (!) replica of the famous Barbot Speciale.


Not a single 'replica' has even came close to what the Barbot once was. I'm curious what yours will look like and which parts you're going to use ...
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Meeuw
Dropped


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ JoZef. I'll stick to my opinion that injection is the best option. For this engine I would need two carbs and then I would have to decide to go for 'suck through' or 'blow through'. Apart from this it would take up a lot of space under the bonnet. Don't forget there's also room needed for a supercharger and intercooler!

@ Sam. The car will be based on a 50's Deuche. Old inner sills (folded side of the fenders), remodelled (horizontal weld) bonnet, shortened wheelbase, 2 spoke Quillery steeringwheel', 'stepped' body (cause the mid section of the body is also lowered in the original version), repositioned and tilted rear fenders, 348cc engine with 2 PIBC carbs, Traction headlights & rims and so on.

I've made an extensive study of the cars photo's and movie's to ensure that the replica is as near as the original. For example: Original photo's are 'scanned' with forensic software to take measurements of the original dimensions.

For those who wants to know what my skills are: What I don't know, I will ask. But be sure that I know what can be achieved...
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JuanNavarro
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Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 171
Location: Madrid (Spain)

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject: Re: The 'Duc' of Deuches Reply with quote

SamClukkers wrote:
Meeuw wrote:
A real (!) replica of the famous Barbot Speciale.


Not a single 'replica' has even came close to what the Barbot once was. I'm curious what yours will look like and which parts you're going to use ...


And the original has a very detunned engine with only 350cm3... Will you preserve this feature in your "real replica" ?
I dont think this fit in the thinking to make a spaceship from a 2cv you have exposed, i know are different proyects but far distant one from other
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Meeuw
Dropped


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Juan.

Yes! If i can get my hands on a A-engine I will do the 348cc conversion...

Barbot used special pistons and 'sleeves' in order to comply to the FIA J-class recuirements and so will I.
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JoZeF
Grave Digger


Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1734

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meeuw wrote:
@ JoZef. I'll stick to my opinion that injection is the best option. For this engine I would need two carbs and then I would have to decide to go for 'suck through' or 'blow through'. Apart from this it would take up a lot of space under the bonnet. Don't forget there's also room needed for a supercharger and intercooler!


I was joking...

Neutral
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Meeuw
Dropped


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing

I was wondering, 'what the.....?'

Anyway, to put the project into gears I've just ordered part 1:

The supercharger. Cool

This baby will be positioned on top of the crankcase, just like the old Constantin supercharger they used on A and AZ's
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JoZeF
Grave Digger


Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1734

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one for sale in the for sale section here Laughing
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Meeuw
Dropped


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aahh!

That's an Aisin! Did you have it on a Deuche? How did you do the plumbing?

According to my calculations (see the software @ turbo-bike.com) you could reach over 70Hp* and it's a pitty that I already ordered and paid my supercharger......

A note to other readers: If you want to beef up your Deuche, buy and install this blower Wink

*Using a STP engine with 7.0:1 compression, injection, racecam, intercooler and, obviously, the bigbore kit
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Olli
Soviet-Finn Photoshoper


Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 2146
Location: Soviet-Finland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meeuw wrote:
shortened wheelbase..


Please dont shorten anything, original is not.
Shortening makes everything look like joke.

Those all existing "barbot replicas" are more like parodies, sadly Neutral


-Olli
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Meeuw
Dropped


Joined: 24 Sep 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Zandvoort, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Olli

The original is in fact shortened by 25cm. It 'looks' like an original length because the heigth of the remaining body is (after the top chop) also lowered by 10cm.

If you want to know how Barbot has done it here's the info:

Chassis shortened by 25cm
Body shortened by 25cm (behind the original B-pillar) and lowered by 10cm (I'm not sure if the body 'hangs' over the chassis and suspension)
The top of the firewall is placed backwards by +/- 15cm
An extra B-pillar is welded 10cm behind the A-pillar and used as a hinge for the lowered rear doors.
Front fenders are tilted backwards and the rear fenders are tilted forewards (note the almost vertical front of the rear fenders).
The sides of the bonnet are also lowered and the entire bonnet is slammed and also tilted backwards.
The roof is cut just above the rear fenders and only the z-section of the roof (the part on which the canvas roof rests) is reused.

If you want more info or pictures please PM me.
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backfire
Dropped


Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 346
Location: NL, 's-Hertogenbosch

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course we want more info and pics Shocked Laughing
PS wicked idea you have with duc headers. How will you fit it with 3 point connection a 2cv engine has?
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Olli
Soviet-Finn Photoshoper


Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 2146
Location: Soviet-Finland

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, maybe you are right.

You can post those pics in "2cv Custom Nostalgia" Topic, in general section.

-Olli
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