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JoZeF
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Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1734

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok ! must be someone else then Wink
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Bart
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Joined: 17 Jun 2007
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Location: Södertälje

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tbh, I don't know myself what caused it, al of a sudden the problem was there...
The cam wheel was put back on correct when we changed timing and the engine did some 40000k.
In the end I recon it is fatique of material.
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JoZeF
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I guess some parts are just not as strong as their fellowmates.
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Bart
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean?
Normally the camwheel is not quite the weakest link in the valve train..
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JoZeF
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if nothing else broke in the engine, causind this part to break, it means i guess that this part had a weakness that you don't usually get in the camshaft of a 2cv engine
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Bart
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah okay, I should have been able to understand the the 'fellowmates' straight away...
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Etienne
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Joined: 25 May 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really amazing ! Shocked
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sivipas
Snailer


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sometimes the springs that hold two halves of cam gear can break and get in the way of gears and cause everything to break (though I see on your photos that at least two springs are intact). it happened to me, so an old citroen mechanic explained this as a probable cause.
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dyanut
Dropped


Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 177
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bart,
in 30 years of working with A series engines, I've only seen this happen on 3 engines.
On 2 of those, the broken camwheel had done so much damage to the gear on the crankshaft that it wasn't usable any more.
The failure seems to be triggered by failure of the rivets or springs which hold the 'scissor' gears together, so it's always worth having a good look at those when you have an engine apart...

Out of interest, how did you remove and re-fit the gear assembly on the camshaft?
Hydraulic press or axle stand and big hammer? ;o)


Ken
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Bart
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dyanut wrote:
Out of interest, how did you remove and re-fit the gear assembly on the camshaft?
Hydraulic press or axle stand and big hammer? ;o)
I used a hydraulic press.
Axle stand and big hammer, how is that supposed to work? Wouldn't one damage the wheel and shaft and how do you then get the wheel back on straight?
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dyanut
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bart,
it was done by someone you will probably have met, as they owned a Barbour 4x4.
They were also one of the most successful competitors in the 2CV racing scene back in the 90s.
Best say no more, as altering camshaft timing wasn't legal for racing, iirc...

Ken


Bart wrote:
dyanut wrote:
Out of interest, how did you remove and re-fit the gear assembly on the camshaft?
Hydraulic press or axle stand and big hammer? ;o)
I used a hydraulic press.
Axle stand and big hammer, how is that supposed to work? Wouldn't one damage the wheel and shaft and how do you then get the wheel back on straight?
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Bart
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dyanut wrote:
Bart,
it was done by someone you will probably have met, as they owned a Barbour 4x4.
They were also one of the most successful competitors in the 2CV racing scene back in the 90s.
Best say no more, as altering camshaft timing wasn't legal for racing, iirc...

Ken
If your formulation is correct I have not met this person, cause all Barbour 4x4 owners I met and who raced 2cvs succesfull still own there 4x4...

Nevertheless, I didn't notice an advantage or disadvantage from retarded camtiming (valves open and close later). iirc I ofset it 7 degrees, cam or crack? I'm not sure, but 7 cam degrees seems a lot so I think it was 7 crankdegrees.

p.s. no 2cv racer told me how to change camtiming. I somehow heard it gets done, thought about it and what the advantage could be and just tried when I built my replacement engine.
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dyanut
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Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bart,
my apologies, I wasn't sure if they still owned the 4x4, which is why I wrote 'owned'.

For the record, altering the cam timing relative to the crank didn't work for racing either, increased torque at low rpm perhaps, but poor top end.
A few hours of practice at Mondello and that engine was stripped down, then with a standard Citroen camshaft fitted the lap times improved dramatically.
As usual, Citroen got it right... ;o)

Still got the photographs of that work going on, but they must remain out of the public domain.

Ken



Bart wrote:
dyanut wrote:
Bart,
it was done by someone you will probably have met, as they owned a Barbour 4x4.
They were also one of the most successful competitors in the 2CV racing scene back in the 90s.
Best say no more, as altering camshaft timing wasn't legal for racing, iirc...

Ken
If your formulation is correct I have not met this person, cause all Barbour 4x4 owners I met and who raced 2cvs succesfull still own there 4x4...

Nevertheless, I didn't notice an advantage or disadvantage from retarded camtiming (valves open and close later). iirc I ofset it 7 degrees, cam or crack? I'm not sure, but 7 cam degrees seems a lot so I think it was 7 crankdegrees.

p.s. no 2cv racer told me how to change camtiming. I somehow heard it gets done, thought about it and what the advantage could be and just tried when I built my replacement engine.
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Bart
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Posts: 781
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In trouble again... but no issues Laughing Wink

Found the cause for a mysterious oil leak which bothered me for quite a while.


Anybody seen this before? The aluminum is quite massive.. and I didn't even abuse it Confused
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TONY ENGLAND
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Joined: 09 Aug 2007
Posts: 742
Location: MALDON, ENGLAND, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bart.
Shit that's not good at all.
Never seen that on a 2cv engine or heard of it either but I have on many other types of cars including BMW.

Hope you get it sorted Very Happy
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