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It just wont bludy start!
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Tev
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Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Posts: 20
Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Points look ok! Reply with quote

it dosent seem to be over sparking.

This afternoon, after leaving it for a few hours it fired up first time. Left it running for a while, turned it off and it wouldn't start again.

I then swapped it for the other coil I have. It once again started first time, and ran fine but when I turned it off and try to restart it was having none of it!

My conclusion from this is I probably have 2 dead coils... what dose anyone else think?

Tev
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Peter
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Joined: 04 Oct 2008
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Location: Zoetermeer, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I think the problem is the coil. It is a problem with a lot of 2cv based kitcars. Try the replace it somewhere else in the car, so it will stay cooler. Of course buy a new one as well and the problem maybe solved.
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Tev
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Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: It continues... Reply with quote

I have got a brand new coil fitted - seems to be much better now. However...

Once it has run up to temperature it idles fine, and it runs at speed fine, but between idle and about 1200 revs it generally coughs and splutters and from time to time goes bang out of the carb. Once it gets to 1200 revs+ it runs fine. After its been running for a while it dose not start happily again. It dose general go eventually but dose not seem happy. Took the plugs to check them and they are dry but sooty.

I am planning to check the valve clearances over the weekend.

My neighbour reckoned it was running rich, and the mixture needs adjusting but according to the Haynes manual that is factory set and shouldn't be fiddled with.

Any other suggestions or thoughts?
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dyanut
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Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 177
Location: North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: It continues... Reply with quote

Tev,
as Harley suggested a while back, it's always worth checking the valve clearances, especially as it doesn't cost anything...
Unlike many other engines, the valve clearances on an A series engine are not set at TDC, instead when one valve is fully open the corresponding valve on the opposite cylinder is adjusted.
Set the exhausts to 0.25mm/10 thou and the inlets to 0.20mm/8 thou.

The idle mixture can (and does) need adjusting, if the tickover is uneven.
It's the screw at an angle on the front of the carb, turn it clockwise to weaken the idle mixture and anti-clockwise to richen it.
When it's correct, one turn inwards will cause the engine to 'stumble' because the mixture is too lean, about 4 turns outwards would make it slow down because it's too rich...

Ken.
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Tev
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Joined: 15 Feb 2011
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Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:17 pm    Post subject: nope... its having none of it... Reply with quote

Right, well this morning I got up all enthusiastic and did the valve clearances.

having done it, went to start it... wont do anything. Checked the valve clearances again - all seem fine, wont start.

having taken the plugs out one is wet and the other isnt - this suggests to me that its only firing on one side (?) It appears to have compression and mechanically be doing everything it should on both sides. Iv tried putting different plugs in, no difference.

I have just thought that my alternator isnt working, and what with all this turning the engine over it isnt as charged as it could be, still it turns the engine strongly, voltage drops to about 10v when its turning - have just put it on charge.

I think someone dosent like me....
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Tev
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: nope... its having none of it... Reply with quote

right, got it started eventually (with the aid of a better charged battery).

Once it warms up it is still spluttering and stuttering between idle and 1200 or so revs, and not hot starting happily. I have given up for the day and put it on charge until tomorrow - I supose the not as charged as it could be battery may not be helping - still - that wont be causing the stuttering etc.

will have a go at adjusting the mixture once I have got it going again (I was about to do that when it died and then refused to restart Confused
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Tev
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, got it started again today - though it would run strait away with the choke in which seems odd.

It runs fine when its cold, though once its warmed up its idle isnt completely happy - iv played adjusting the mixture games.

It is still stalling under heavy acceleration from idle to 1000 revs or so. It splutters and throws petrol mist out of the top of the carb. It accelerates perfectly above that though, or even from lower speeds than 1000 revs so long as its just after the engine has been running faster.

It also dosnt start as reliably as I would expect when its warm. it will normally go eventually but not just start as I would expect.

I did wonder if its that I had managed to flaten the battery with all this turning it over, however it was still turning the engine over strongly - could the battery turn the engine over but not have enough voltage to make a strong spark, or is that a red herring?
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backfire
Dropped


Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 346
Location: NL, 's-Hertogenbosch

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No that's not a red herring.

But when it starts without choke and runs fine then the most obvious problem is to much petrol. This could happen because of wrong adjusted float, or a loose jet?

Hot starting 2cv is always problem, do it according to the manual, when hot, full trottle and start.

What also could be a problem is the contact rol on the back of the ignition key system, when oxidized it will sometimes act strange when starting.
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Tev
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Joined: 15 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:10 pm    Post subject: I think I have found the problem... Reply with quote

I have now adjusted the mix, we will see what its like when its cold.

I believe I have tracked down the problem to a weak coil (a-g-a-i-n).

With my brand new coil in, once it had started refusing to re-start I put one of my old week coils in. It restarted fine, but not only that it was no longer backfiring or stalling on acceleration. I then put the brand new coil back in and whilst it did start, it once again started backfiring etc. I then put the other cold week coil in, and once again it started fine and ran perfectly. I left it running for a few minits and bingo - it started also backfiring etc. I put my brand new coil back in and it started but continued backfiring etc.

My conclusion to this is that my brand new coil is faulty - dose anyone else agree and more to the point - can anyone explain to me why a week coil would cause it to backfire under heavy acceleration?

Tev
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backfire
Dropped


Joined: 14 Nov 2007
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Location: NL, 's-Hertogenbosch

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you check the voltage of the running system, i expect it to be way to low or way to high. Should be app. 14 volts
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Tev
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Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from memory, since iv fitted the new alternator, the operating voltage is between about 12.5v and 14v depending on how fast the engine is running
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Tev
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Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Its fixed! (hopfully for good now!) Reply with quote

Got a new, new coil today. Fitted it - car works perfectly. Will happily restart when warm, and dosnt general backfire or stall under heavy acceleration.

Still, anyone have any idea why a weak coil would make it backfire?
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backfire
Dropped


Joined: 14 Nov 2007
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Location: NL, 's-Hertogenbosch

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simple conclusion could be that weak coil doesn't generate enough spark to ignite the fuel on the work stroke but instead ignites it on the second stroke, generating the backfire. Remember that the 2cv is a dual sparking system, it sparks also on the exhaust stroke which comes just before the intake. Hope it makes sense to you.
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Tev
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I thought it was probably something like that - thanks all the same!
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