SNAIL

Tev · Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: It just wont bludy start!

Hello all, I am here in desperation as I have completely run out of ideas!

I have a Falcon 2cv based kit car (1976 if you believe the number plate, though I wouldn’t guarantee the engine is from that year! Its a 602 standard 2cv engine though so far as I can tell). I had it running and then one day it started being spluttery back firing and not happy, or not starting. It would occasionally go but have no power and die very fast. It now doesn’t seem to want to do anything.

Now on to what I have tryed... it has new plugs, new ht leads, new condenser, new points, have tried 3 different coils, Iv had the carb of and checked the packing block, re gasketed it, new petrol, fuel pump pumps fine, engine seems to suck air in through the carb and blow it out through the exhaust, starter motor is fine.

Basically it turns over fine but just doesn’t start, and I sort of feel I have tried just about everything!

So – any suggestions as where to look next gratefully received!

Tev
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Harley · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:44 am Post subject:

Thats frustrating,

Have you looked at your valve timing and adjusted your tappets?

I once watched the owner of a raid car that was experiencing similar symptoms to your go through and check everything you have mentioned only to discover that the tappets needed adjustment.
The funny thing was that the raid mechanic told him to check the tappets first of all... But because he had adjusted them before the trip he decided to check everything else instead... carby, fuel pump, timing, points, advance weights, coil, plugs, leads... 3 hrs later... it was the tappets;)

Hope that helps!

Harley
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PerI · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:25 am Post subject:

I've recently had troubles with 3 different condensers even if it was never used before. So it may be produced in the 80's and dried out now which means it doesn't work.

You'll se if it works or not if you try to start up the engine without the fan and the contact breaker cover. If you see a big spark (like when you try to light a candle stick but it doesn't burn) at the contact breaker, the condenser fail. If you see a little spark, not bigger than a needle tip, it's close to perfect.

NB! Do not run the engine for a long time without fan, otherwise it will run too hot.

Does anyone know if there are condensers in the marked that are newly made?
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'71 2cv 6 · '74 Ami Super Berline · '70 Ami 6 Service (project) · 2(3) AZU projects · 2cv since '93 · C5 v6.24 · GPicasso 2.0 hdi · 307cc

Tev · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:56 pm Post subject: It lives!

Problem solved. It apears the coil was duff - I recon vairous other things wernt right eithor but meh... it seems to be running nicely now.
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Some say my business is just an excuse to buy all the vehicles iv always wanted to own!

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Tev · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:02 am Post subject:

...other than it apears that I maniged to wire the left hadn break light to the right hand indicator and vice verser... Confused

Many thanks for all your sugestions - I fear that when I last tryed swapping the coils something else was broken, as I know for a fact the coil that seems to be working now I had tryed previously!

The new condensor I got from ecas looks like its moden, dosent look like old stock anyway.

right, just need to get the wireing sorted, replace the break master cylinder (which dosent seem to return properly), fix the seats, fit seat belts, re-atach the bonet and take it for an MOT... easy as that hugh...?
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Some say my business is just an excuse to buy all the vehicles iv always wanted to own!

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Etienne · Hoodrider Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 2829

Tev · Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:50 am Post subject: Float adjusting

Just been looking around the internet with limted sucsses - is there any easy way to set the float leval? It is not ideling properly and I know the float hasnt been set properly.

Any sugestions?
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Some say my business is just an excuse to buy all the vehicles iv always wanted to own!

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dyanut · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: Re: Float adjusting

Poor idling is usually a blocked idle jet, which is easy to remove and clean, as it's on the front of the carburettor.

To set the float level you need to remove the carburettor lid, then use a steel ruler or other measuring device to check and adjust the distance between the gasket face and the 'pips' on the centre of the floats.

That will do just as good a job of the adjustment as the tool used at the factory.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@N06/3077932758/in/photostream

ken

( Another suggestion; please engage your spellchecker. Wink

)

Tev · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:53 pm Post subject: It's died again!

Right, so it was working fine other than the idle.

I took the top of the carb to adjust the float level, put it back together - runs fine.

once it has warmed up put the choke back in to see if it will idle properly now, it stops.

I adjust the idle screw adjuster

I try to start it again, it splutters a few times and then goes back to just blank refusing to do anything, other than the occasional cough!

Figgers hugh... Confused

Now im wondering if I have some random erratic electrical fault (though we have replaced the entire electrical system), or if there is something wrong with the carb (as that was the last thing I was fiddling with)

Any suggestions very much appreciated!

(spell checker used... so apoligies if there are some strange replaced words in there!)
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Some say my business is just an excuse to buy all the vehicles iv always wanted to own!

www.thestagebus.com

dyanut · Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: It's died again!

Hi Tev,
have you adjusted the valve clearances, as Harley suggested earlier?
If they're too tight, cold starting may be fine, but hot starts will be problematic.

Might be an idea to get hold of one of these HT testers, which allow you to see if there's a good spark being delivered.
Once that's out of the way, you can concentrate on the carburation side of things.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@N06/3193388837/in/photostream

Btw, if it doesn't start, try not to keep pressing the throttle pedal, as every stroke pumps a shot of neat fuel into the engine via the accelerator pump and that can flood the engine.
If that has happened, you need to keep the throttle to the floor and give it bursts of the starter motor.

Ken
p.s. Cheers for the spell checking, made your post a lot easier to read... ;o)

p.p.s. There's a fellow with the nickname 'Spanners' in Bromsgrove, near Brummagem who's very good with 2CVs.
If you're getting close to the end of your tether with the motor, he should be able to find what's wrong.

Tev · Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject: it worked again... briefly

Right... well came out to it again today and it started first time, then refused to start again until I put the other (presumed dead) coil in.

It ran and started for a while and then started to refuse to go again.

We got a strobe wired up, and it appears that it is not reliably sparking. It more reliably sparks if you open the points manually, but when you spin the engine over it just dosent seem to want to spark reliably.

Tryed putting back the old condenser - didn't seem to make any difference, checked points gap and cleaned points again.

So... what dose it sound like to any of you? do I have 2 dead coils or dose anyone have any other suggestions as to what might be causing it to not fire reliably when the points are opened?

any help gratefully received!
_________________
Some say my business is just an excuse to buy all the vehicles iv always wanted to own!

www.thestagebus.com

dyanut · Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: it worked again... briefly

Tev.
that does begin to sound like a faulty condenser.
'If' you can get it started again, run it with the fan and the points box cover removed.
If there's heavy sparking across the points, the condenser is kaput.

Alternatively, check for voltage drop in the wire running to the coil from the main loom, especially with the starter motor activated.
I've had to replace that on more than one car and suspect they may have been damaged by someone bypassing the coil and connecting direct to the points, short circuiting the ignition feed.

It could also be an ignition drum with corroded contacts, quite common in A series cars, probably more so in open top kit cars where rain can get into the drum.
Test by 'hot wiring' the ignition, running a wire direct from the battery to the coil.
Do not leave this hooked up for any length of time with the engine not running, as you'd run the risk of 'cooking' the coil. ;o(
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30132857@N06/3654939718/in/photostream

ken

PerI · Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:36 pm Post subject:

Tev · Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: it worked again... briefly

Yes, have alredy tried below, have been round and bypased / tested every cable that conects anything to anything...

How much sparking is to much?

dyanut · Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: it worked again... briefly

Tev,
here's a tractor engine with a condenser/capacitor problem...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro9xMG_VMYU

and a moped engine, which seems not too bad to me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ7xoGtsGEw&feature=related

Ken.