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Injecting your 2CV
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Jasu
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

About this "sequential". It's only sarcasm, because there it's two cylinders... Wink I'm using MS1 extra-code, each injectors in their "own injector banks"... Bx GTi 170cc/min injectors, alternating injecting.

I'm now not at home, cannot check any settings...
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Harley
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Braidwood - Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey,

I seem to be getting a very erratic MAP reading... It jumps around about 10kpa right across the rev range, making it very hard for AT to tune properly. My vacuum nipple is on the adapter plate directly under the throttle body, next to the fuel reg vacuum.
I am about to upgrade to MSxtra so that i can have a reference AFR table.

ALSO, Surge tank??? I am running a single external fuel pump and i get surge in my lines when cornering, roundabouts etc, at about half tank. I am going to look into fuel tank baffles as an option, as opposed to a surge tank, takes up to much room + extra pump.

Harley
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ami8i
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Austria (Graz)

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Harley,

@MAP:
at idle MAP is not very smooth in my OEM camshaft Visa. I added an old fashioned fuel filter and a small can as buffer. Diddn't work.
'Best' think was to narrow the hose. I have also tested a way of delay box which was in an a car. Wonderful smooth idle MAPs but too skow when hitting the gas pedal.
at driving revs I have no problem with MAP, very smooth!
I connected the MAP hose at several vacuum positions of the TBI- Just one was bad because no vacuum was read when throttle is closed.
I have no idea why your MAP jumps, I guess adapter plate is a perfect place.

What is AT?

Mybe problems in wiring? noise from ignition, bad contacts which cause lower voltage...?


@Surge tank:
I have no problem til tank is empty. Inline HP pump sucks from OEM fuel hose which is fixed in/into the tank. I know that fuel pumps tend to have troubles to suck air --> I positioned the pump as low as possible in front of tank.
http://megasquirt-de.serviceline.ch/success/user0001/pics0001/BenzinpumpeFilter.jpg
Protected (view and stones) by a sheet of metal
http://megasquirt-de.serviceline.ch/success/user0001/pics0001/BenzinpumpeFilter_Kartonverkleidung.jpg


Maybe your dead end lines include air bubbles --> troubles?


@GM bungs:
Still interested in the engine/part number...

»Horst
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Jasu
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now. After ower 500km testing and tuning. At first with MAP-based(speed-density -algorithm) and in this week i went TPS-based (alpha-N).

First start was quite hard, learning to adjustment and many settings. And Cold and After Start Enrichments... They were quite wrong when I start tuning, but now they are quite well I think..?

Then drivin with MegaLogWiewer, making "new" fuel maps with it and more test driving...

Now it's "good enough" to daily use, Acceleration enrichments are ok and I think there it much more useful power than earlier.

Next thing is build another engine and put injection parts there and go with it to dyno. With 292 degree camshaft and something else..? Also making fuel maps better is endless story..!

I have used money for this project less than 200€, but I have taken parts from cars from backyard... "Normal" costs in Megasquirt -project in Finland in somewhere between 500-1000€, depending what You want there and what You can do by Yourself... And there is only parts, nobody counts hours there..! We are also making with one of my friends Harley with Microsquirt, and there is gone over 900€ money now -there is same situation now, tuning...
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4x4 SuperFinn
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Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 47
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champy2k wrote:
Bartje wrote:
Thanks Geoff, so Louis and I wasted our time this summer... Confused Nothing new on that side Very Happy

not yet wasted we were talking about it at sparrows the other day, it just needs setting up on the dyno, the theory is right to work, but yet to be tried


Pete, Louis and I took my car to a Rolling Road and tested 6 exhausts last year and the the modified exhaust that Louis and Bart did definitely gave more power and torque. As I remember it there were 3 bits 2 tuned 2 into 1, big swanneck and bigger backbox. With every bit added there was more and more power.

We left the best system on for road testing and it made a noticeable difference. Some hills could be done in 4th instead of dropping down a gear so there was definitely more torque...
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ami8i
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Austria (Graz)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4 SuperFinn wrote:
Pete, Louis and I took my car to a Rolling Road and tested 6 exhausts last year and the the modified exhaust that Louis and Bart did definitely gave more power and torque. As I remember it there were 3 bits 2 tuned 2 into 1, big swanneck and bigger backbox. With every bit added there was more and more power.

We left the best system on for road testing and it made a noticeable difference. Some hills could be done in 4th instead of dropping down a gear so there was definitely more torque...
Hello 4x4 SuperFinn,
intersting stuff!
Would be very helpful if Pete, Bart (=Pete), Louis could share the experience?
I guess it's worth to start a new topic.

I'm in the process to collect parts to test the influence of the interference pipe. My plan is to put in 2 parts (German 'Holländer' or 'Rohrverschraubung' Nr 330 1/2") like this http://www.esska.de/esska_de/bilder/hauptbilder_neu/96_verschraubungen/961_temperguss/961733000000_250.jpg so that a piece of tube could be replaced without unscrewing the (exhaust ) manifold.
Inserted cheap short tubes ('Rohrnippel' 1"x60mm) could be modified for several tasks:
- as it is (interference as OEM 2CV)
- blocked (influence of no cross connection)
- blocked but with 2 holes at each side to test various connection lenghts
- shared O2 sensor for both cylinders
- Exhaust gas valve to improve mileage (I know not your business)

My current test software is oldfashioned Streetdyno, maybe I'll upgrade to GSF-Dyno or something better?

»Horst
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4x4 SuperFinn
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Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 47
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ami8i

I've got all the graphs of the results somewhere. If I get to them I'll scan and post them so you can see before and after results...

ami8i wrote:
4x4 SuperFinn wrote:
Pete, Louis and I took my car to a Rolling Road and tested 6 exhausts last year and the the modified exhaust that Louis and Bart did definitely gave more power and torque. As I remember it there were 3 bits 2 tuned 2 into 1, big swanneck and bigger backbox. With every bit added there was more and more power.

We left the best system on for road testing and it made a noticeable difference. Some hills could be done in 4th instead of dropping down a gear so there was definitely more torque...
Hello 4x4 SuperFinn,
intersting stuff!
Would be very helpful if Pete, Bart (=Pete), Louis could share the experience?
I guess it's worth to start a new topic.

I'm in the process to collect parts to test the influence of the interference pipe. My plan is to put in 2 parts (German 'Holländer' or 'Rohrverschraubung' Nr 330 1/2") like this http://www.esska.de/esska_de/bilder/hauptbilder_neu/96_verschraubungen/961_temperguss/961733000000_250.jpg so that a piece of tube could be replaced without unscrewing the (exhaust ) manifold.
Inserted cheap short tubes ('Rohrnippel' 1"x60mm) could be modified for several tasks:
- as it is (interference as OEM 2CV)
- blocked (influence of no cross connection)
- blocked but with 2 holes at each side to test various connection lenghts
- shared O2 sensor for both cylinders
- Exhaust gas valve to improve mileage (I know not your business)

My current test software is oldfashioned Streetdyno, maybe I'll upgrade to GSF-Dyno or something better?

»Horst
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ami8i
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Austria (Graz)

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x4 SuperFinn wrote:
I've got all the graphs of the results somewhere. If I get to them I'll scan and post them so you can see before and after results...
Yeah 4x4 SuperFinn - would be great!
Thanks in advance.
»Horst
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Harley
Dropped


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Braidwood - Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jasu,
How is the Alpha-N going? very interesting, with the way my MAP jumps around perhaps it is the road i may need to take...

Hi Horst,
By AT i mean Auto Tune in megasquirt...
Next week i will have a megasquirt 'Guru' they say, look at my setup... until then.

Cranking Pulse Widths anyone???

I am having trouble setting the cranking PW on my setup...
I had them set at 13.6ms hot and 3.0ms cold, which was acceptable but not fully reliable. Now that i have played with my VE values it takes longer to start up...

My idle PW is 2.7 @ 800rpm, i know there is an equation you can use but i always end up with to smaller number, like 1.7 cold and 5.6 hot??? It seems to prefer higher numbers like 4.0ms and 19.7ms.
Any help would be appreciated as my alternator is only half working and cranking is very expensive at the moment!!!

Cheers
Harley
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Jasu
Dropped


Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



With these it will start well, and You have something where You can start tuning...

Tested about every temperature between -7 and 71 celcius, and almost always starting without problems..!

Alpha-N works well, in every way better than Speed-Density... Put your e-mail to me, so I can send my MSQ-file if You want to look my setup..? VE-table isn't "ready" jet (is it ever???), but I'm quite satisfied to it now. Only slight tuning anymore, runs well, feeling is much better what it was with Jetronic. And can't compare to carburetto r... Wink
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Jasu
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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My settings..:









If this helps anyone..? Rolling Eyes

It works better with Simultanous than Alternating Injector Staging...
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Harley
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Braidwood - Australia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Jasu,

Very helpful to me.
I am a bit confused Confused This is your Alpha-N setup, yes... the one you emailed me... But Speed Density is selected for the Control Algorithm on the Constants page?
I haven't had time to try it out yet, but will let you know how it goes.

Cheers
Harley
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Spot my 2cv Surprised www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoq68CPLq4M
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Jasu
Dropped


Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harley wrote:
the one you emailed me... But Speed Density is selected for the Control Algorithm on the Constants page?


Oops... There is mistake, taken screenshot from earlier setup... I took them with our baby-artist, so maybe they need to check out... Embarassed
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Jasu
Dropped


Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 211
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Screenshots corrected... And there is something more...

RPM Based Accel. That made engine run like h*ll when accelerating!!! Nice and easy... Feels just like there is 1000cc engine now... They say that setting is often required in small displacement engines and race tuned engines, so 2cv -engine is near both of this...
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Harley
Dropped


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Braidwood - Australia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ami8i wrote:

@GM bungs:
Still interested in the engine/part number...


I finally had the guard off and checked the number, two numbers stamped on either side:
90 106 729 5
088 1226 GM

My MAP: I tried squezzing the MAP air hose with my fingers and MAP became very stable! So I fitted a very simple clamp to squezze it tight, now i have very smooth MAp across the rev range, about 1 -2 kpa change at idle Very Happy
It took a bit of fine adjustment to still have good response when hitting the pedal hard but i think i have found a happy medium. I will try machining a smaller gauge nipple on my TB adaptor plate when i get the chance, maybe a smaller diamiter hose...

Now i can tune with my Jaw WB O2 controller Very Happy BUT, last night i think i fried it after a bad firmware flash Crying or Very sad
I have purchased a new WB Controller from Techedge here in Oz, the DIY 2Y1 http://wbo2.com/2y/default.htm.

Cheers
Harley
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Spot my 2cv Surprised www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoq68CPLq4M
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