SNAIL

Erkka · Snailer Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 56

At least one member has experience in building a fuel injection system for their 2CV. I'd like to hear about how it was done, if it's being used with the original ignition system or with something else...etc.

I've been thinking about Megasquirt + some injection (EDIS...?) for my Visa engine and if I get that done, then I'll turbo it. I already have the turbo and intercooler (small Garrett turbo and intercoler from a Citroën BX TZD), so if the injection project is not a huge huge deal then I might be able to pull it off during the winter.

I'm looking for a reliable, reasonably powerful combination and I feel that with some boost it could be achieved. :)

I do have time constraints though, as we're getting a new member to our family in late october and a baby (especially when it's our first) has been known to hold back even the wildest of builders, let alone a laid-back, do-it-when-you-got-the-inspiration kinda guy like me. :) So if you see megasquirting as a huge issue, then this whole thing might have to wait a couple of years..

JoZeF · Grave Digger Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 1734

A friend use the injection system from a Saab 900...

I think it is K-jet bosch system.

You need to use 2 injectors instead of 4, of cause, and you have to block off two fuel outlets on the pump, and readjust fuel output (reduce by two)

that's basically the idea, don't ask me anymore about the installation, I've no idea what he did after that.

A diesel turbo is not recommended. you will only get poor results using that (or any turbo for an engine too big compared to the 652) too much lag, and diesel turbos aren't adapted for Petrol engine exhaust temperatures...

Bye
_________________
"That bumper fits there like sunglasses on pig" Laughing

O.E.

2cvracer · Snailer Joined: 05 Jul 2007 Posts: 12

I would say get on and do it. fuel injection is common on the Belgian 2cv cup cars. I helped build one a few years ago and it made 60bhp + reliably, we won 2 3 hour races at spa with this car.
Champy2000 (Geoff Archer) has made aluminium manifolds to suit throttle bodies made by a company called Jenvey. I will post websites later.
In the UK we don't have the restrictions that you have in europe (at the moment) so there is a good aftermarket in retro fit fuel injection. You can go and by almost everything you need to do your visa motor off of the shelf here, the only part that really takes some setting up is the engine speed sensor (i have used luminition but you have to do away with the mechanical advance). A map sensor would sort out the turbo side of things and then you have to find someone to map the car, getting someone who knows what they are doing makes a good or bad car.
I will try and get some pictures of the set up we used to Joseph and may be he will be able to post them.
if you are interested in doing this job i will help as much as i can with the information i have.
You of course can be more resoureful and make you own stuff using car or bike parts but i would strongly recommend you buy a good engine ECU, this will allow flexability if you want to modify the engine later. some ECU's now come with switchable maps so you can choose what power you want your engine to make at the flick of a switch. very clever.
And the best bit? generally the older the engine design the better it will repond to fuel injection. I would expect a standard 2cv engine and exhaust to make 8bhp more than original, may be more.

www.ppcmag.co.uk
www.emeraldm3d.com
www.jenvey.co.uk

Also, a guy called Dave Walker has written a book on fuel injection which is very good, he also runs Emerald,tuned my cars for 10 years and really good chap

http://www.bookfellas.co.uk/scripts/browse.asp?ref=1859608353&source=J69

well worth a read.

i gotta do some work now.
_________________
Now where did I put that supercharger.....

champy2k · Dropped Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 116 Location: uk

yea petes right, we developed manifolds to suit jenvey single bodies, then source an after market ecu like emerald, crank sensors off either ford or gm, in the uk for a full set up ready to drive about 3000 sterling less if you source used fuel pump etc, but it works and is tunableand upgradable
_________________
the older i get the more projects i start!!!!!!

lower than a snake with tits

www.2cv-speed-shop.co.uk

Erkka · Snailer Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 56

Hey fellas!

Great post 2cvracer, I'm definitely even more interested now. I'll definitely be reading the book on injection!

I have aqcuaintances that work in the high-perf car world, one installs AEM ECU's and makes wiring harnesses for them for a living. When I talked about my thoughts he, of course, immediately said that I should get an AEM ECU, but I feel it's a bit overkill for now. :) Of course it would give me crazy amounts of precise tunability but...the price is a bit steep.

As for the turbo bit that JoZeF mentioned, I wouldn't foresee such a big problem using the TZD Turbo. Of course the BX engine is bigger, but then again the power output is quite modest and the RPM range quite low, so the amount of air it needs to move is not very large.

The exhaust temp issue could be handled by the generally very low oil temps of the 2CV. if the oil feed were plumbed from the outlet of the oil cooler and the oil exiting the turbo were fed into the cooler again, the oil could possibly cool the turbo enough to make it last. If not, then scrap the turbo and just go with a free-breather. :)

champy2k · Dropped Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 116 Location: uk

Lars E · Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:42 pm Post subject:

Hi...

I megasquirtet my 2cv last summer, and its running fine. ca10% ekstra Hp. and Nm.

I startet with a modifit carb and manifold. TPS from a BX 1,6, injektores from a Opel kadett 1,8 GTE, temp sensors from Bohcs, fuel pump from BX 1,6

Last summer I just 123 ignition, but this year the megasquirt controler.

som links
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
http://www.megamanual.com/mtab
http://www.powerforum.dk/viewtopic.php?t=12751con.htm
http://www.msefi.com/
http://www.megasquirt.de/msforum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=85
http://www.megasquirt.de/msforum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=179

http://www.citronik.dk/jforum/posts/list/60/266.page
http://www.powerforum.dk/viewtopic.php?t=17686&start=0
_________________
Mvh. Lars E
2cv 0,6Tii special

JoZeF · Grave Digger Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 1734

My friend's first turbocharged 652 was using an AUDI A3 TDI turbo... (1900cc)

very bad results.

He then used a Fiat Uno turbo (1400cc), which improved the output somewhat...

Now he's using Smart prototype units, (a friend of his works in reasearch and development at Garrett, so that helps Wink

) they are custom built for him via the research labs Wink

, as the Smart units have Exhaust manifolds integrated, these are cut and custom flanges are welded.

Designed for a 700 engine, they are perfect for his needs. I seem to remember him saying that these protos turbos take 280 KRpm Laughing

If you haven't got the funds for a baby turbo as mentioned by Geoff, I would advise you to find the smallest petrol engine turbo you can find... I can't see what performance you are going to get from a turbo designed for a 1.8L diesel engine...

could be wrong, but...
_________________
"That bumper fits there like sunglasses on pig" Laughing

O.E.

Erkka · Snailer Joined: 07 Jul 2007 Posts: 56

Kustombart · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:29 am Post subject:

I have to agree with Jozef on this one. Using a turbo that big will be a waste of your time. Do pick up a Smart turbo or else a used Japanese (I know, it's japanese but they are quality) turbo from a small 3 cilinder car. I forget which make but they are around 800cc.

Also you need to change the cam for a setting with less valve overlap in inlet and exhaust timing, or else you will be blowing your boost straight into the exhaust...
_________________
Don't ask me what I think of you 'cause I might not give the answer that you want me to.

www.kustombart.com

JoZeF · Grave Digger Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 1734

Don't you like agreeing with me, my duck ? Laughing

Don't forget that the Smart turbo is cool, but very boring exhaust manifold integrated to it :

But it is mild steel, so you can easily weld it (if you know how to take a Turbo apart and rebuild it...
_________________
"That bumper fits there like sunglasses on pig" Laughing

O.E.

Kustombart · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject:

I don't like to agree with anyone but you share my opinion on many things so I have no choice......

Have you tried welding it? I find welding die cast steel a bitch. But there are enough welders around who could fit a flange to it. All that is left will be making 2 into 1 exhaust manifold from pipes with a flange and then back to the rest of the exhaust. The question is to leave the first damper or cut it out.

I think you could leave it out because the turbo already damps a lot of the noise. Maybe just do with the second damper or straight pipe.

PS: why would you want to take the turbo itself apart? I would think the seals /bearings can take the heat from welding.
_________________
Don't ask me what I think of you 'cause I might not give the answer that you want me to.

www.kustombart.com

JoZeF · Grave Digger Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 1734

Kustombart · Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject:

Wow, is it a daily driver or what? Flexible enough to drive in busy traffic without overheating etc? And what about the lag?
_________________
Don't ask me what I think of you 'cause I might not give the answer that you want me to.

www.kustombart.com

Etienne · Hoodrider Joined: 25 May 2007 Posts: 2829

link to ebay.de

5,50 for moment and bid will end tomorrow...
Text says this come from a wrecked car, seller can't guaranty this turbo is still working but from outside everything looks good...
_________________
www.super2cv.com